Curse

AaronSwitchblade · Jan 18, 2008, 12:28 AM // 00:28

Just a few questions -

I recently created a Dervish. I've only just started out, but I'm having some doubts, namely, what can the class hope to do that isn't already possible to a warrior. I had considered taking a Warrior secondary y'see, and then I thought with Warrior armour and Strength, is it not better to have a Warrior primary with Dervish secondary? What else do Dervishes bring to the table?

I'm just concerned because I spent time using a Sin in Factions, and I ended up deleting it, totally underwhelmed with its abilities. My issue is that Dervishes, like Sins, need to be in close range to do damage, but don't have Warrior/Paragon armour levels, so how can you expect to match the damage output of a Warrior? Given, you can dart in and out of combat, but if Warriors can match your damage output AND tank, what can you contribute to a team? Basically, what does Dervish primary offer over Dervish secondary?

So if I'm keeping the Dervish, I need a secondary. I'm leaning towards the Warrior line, but I'm thinking about Elementalist Earth Magic skills for defense, or Mesmer and the likes of Distortion. Wild Blow sounds like it really tips the scales towards Warrior though.

Stormlord Alex · Jan 18, 2008, 12:58 AM // 00:58

Dervishes bring massive damage to the table.
They trade the flexibility and utility of a warrior for raw damage potential.

Also, they've got very strong elites.
[skill=text]avatar of Lyssa[/skill] is a demon in PvE, coupled with fast activating attacks you get easy 100+ damage swings all over the show.
[skill=text]avatar of melandru[/skill] is incredibly strong in both PvE and PvP. It's nigh-on immortal and immune to many threats that physicals usually face. Oh, and it can spam Eviscerate.

As for secondary, go Warrior. Wild Blow, Protector's Strike, Bull's Strike and Rush are infinitely more powerful than any of the defensive crap you might be tempted to bring. You've got monks for a reason.

Yuhe Ji · Jan 18, 2008, 01:43 AM // 01:43

Dervs also tend to rely on enchantments, which is why they have the 4-pip energy regeneration. Their armor may not be that high, but their enchantments usually can boost up damage and defense.

Darkside · Jan 18, 2008, 07:21 AM // 07:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronSwitchblade

Just a few questions -

I recently created a Dervish. I've only just started out, but I'm having some doubts, namely, what can the class hope to do that isn't already possible to a warrior. I had considered taking a Warrior secondary y'see, and then I thought with Warrior armour and Strength, is it not better to have a Warrior primary with Dervish secondary? What else do Dervishes bring to the table?

I'm just concerned because I spent time using a Sin in Factions, and I ended up deleting it, totally underwhelmed with its abilities. My issue is that Dervishes, like Sins, need to be in close range to do damage, but don't have Warrior/Paragon armour levels, so how can you expect to match the damage output of a Warrior? Given, you can dart in and out of combat, but if Warriors can match your damage output AND tank, what can you contribute to a team? Basically, what does Dervish primary offer over Dervish secondary?

So if I'm keeping the Dervish, I need a secondary. I'm leaning towards the Warrior line, but I'm thinking about Elementalist Earth Magic skills for defense, or Mesmer and the likes of Distortion. Wild Blow sounds like it really tips the scales towards Warrior though.

A Dervish can be just as great if not better then a warrior if played correctly. The problem is that the dervish is a lot more complicated to use then a warrior. Your offensive and defensive capabilities are all dependent on enchantments. At first this can seem a little daunting and that's probably why most would stick with warriors since they are just bone head easy to use.

Your first concern about armor levels can be easily addressed by using skills like conviction/great dwarf armor and/or windwalker runes on your armor.

Damage wise a dervish can do a lot more damage to multiple targets then a warrior can. I've never seen damage numbers as high on my warrior as I have on my dervish. I can easily hit 100+ damage...even on a c-space, image that on adjacent foes.

As for a secondary prof...it really doesn't matter a dervish can get a long pretty well using only primary skills. I most often go /w just for wild blow because 75% block stances annoy me. I would avoid defensive skills from other professions because the dervish already has a lot of defensive options in the earth prayer line.

Sirius-NZ · Jan 18, 2008, 11:25 AM // 11:25

Oh, and one other thing: going defensive is overrated. Initially, maybe you might want to do it, but um ... killing things faster seems to work at least as well.

Generally a Dervish will act as backup to a Warrior in the front line; the Warrior will take most of the punishment, while the Dervish runs around shattering the stuff that's giving him/her said punishment. That said, when H/Hing I've managed to get away with being the sole melee character in the party as well... a lot of enemies are rather too interested in your casters to give you much grief.

Zorian Direspell · Jan 21, 2008, 05:08 PM // 17:08

what can the class hope to do that isn't already possible to a warrior.

Dervishes can max scythes, which allows them to do substantially more damage with that weapon than a warrior. Scythes, in comparison to warrior attacks, can strike more than one foe in a swing (something the warrior usually devotes a skill to). Scythes are capable of a higher damage yield than warrior weapons, especially on critical hits. Additionally, dervish skills can be used to cause burning, bleeding, crippled, weakness and deep wound. Warriors, in comparison, have only deep wound, bleeding, crippled and dazed.

with Warrior armour and Strength, is it not better to have a Warrior primary with Dervish secondary?

As mentioned above, scythes do substantially less damage in the hands of a warrior than a Dervish. Strength only triggers on attack skills, where as improved attributes trigger on every hit. Furthermore, while dervish secondaries are good for warriors thanks to natural healing and a slew of other stand alone skills, warrior as a primary precludes mysticism, which houses one of the best IAS skills in the game.

What else do Dervishes bring to the table?

High damage on several fronts and the ability to apply numerous conditions across multiple enemies at once.

Dervishes, like Sins, need to be in close range to do damage, but don't have Warrior/Paragon armour levels, so how can you expect to match the damage output of a Warrior?

Dervishes are the exact opposite of sins. Sins can not withstand significant pressure. Dervishes can. Furthermore, sin weapons (daggers) can not exert pressure without using attack skills. Dervish weapons (scythes) can. Assassin attacks require careful consideration of the order in which attacks are chosen. Dervish attack skills do not. Finally, Dervishes excel at pressuring multiple foes. Assassins excel at spiking/killing one.

Dervishes with Blessed insignias and Conviction will have an AL of 104. Damage reduction from the application of weakness and/or enchantments can further improve survivability. Dervishes also have access to self heals and restorative buffs second only to a monk. Furthermore, Dervish attacks recharge quickly enough that you do not need an entire bar devoted to attack skills. 3-4 slots (at most) should be sufficient.

Given, you can dart in and out of combat, but if Warriors can match your damage output AND tank, what can you contribute to a team?

1. Dervishes are just as good as Warriors when it comes to handling damage. Dervishes should rarely have to retreat from the front line. Also, keep in mind the fact that monks are what really allow classes to 'tank'.

I need a secondary. I'm leaning towards the Warrior line, but I'm thinking about Elementalist Earth Magic skills for defense, or Mesmer and the likes of Distortion. Wild Blow sounds like it really tips the scales towards Warrior though.

Earth magic skills aren't terrible but distortion would be an awful choice for a Dervish. Conviction by itself provides plenty of damage mitigation without draining your energy reserves. My advice is to go monk, warrior, or necromancer (although the latter is not preferred). Warrior for wild blow, Monk for mending touch/protection spells or certain maintained smiting enchantments. I recommend Necromancer only because there are a few necromancer enchantments that can work with a dervish, but I've always found such builds to be too gimmicky.

The Dervish as a class has a lot of good elites and viable builds. Don't get too discouraged by the initial skills you're handed when you start your Dervish. Eventually you'll be one of the most damaging and difficult to kill members of your party.

Pyro maniac · Jan 21, 2008, 05:15 PM // 17:15

also don't rely too much on enchantments
Heart of Fury and maybe Mystic Vigor is ok, but nothing else. Use some attacki skills instead (or like alex said rush/flail/etc) The prot monks will fuel your energy =)

Asha Rai · Jan 21, 2008, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by AaronSwitchblade

Wild Blow sounds like it really tips the scales towards Warrior though.

imo wild blow works better with a derve. it's unlinked, loosing all adrenaline isn't as much of a pain, 5 energy means less to you, and best of all, scythe crits are owe.

Syntonic · Jan 21, 2008, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Actually, warriors can cause weakness in the hammer line I believe. Honestly, dervishes are so-so when compared to warriors especially on the front lines. I'm not sure if this is why they are seeing less play in GvG but they are still used now and then (perhaps someone who GvGs in the top tier can comment.) You give up some of the armor and have a bit of variable (with huge) damage potential and in return, you gain immunity to conditions for a period of time which is considerable especially in terms in PvP

You don't need to worry about it being like an assassin as dervishes are built to be front line characters and not skirmish types. In PvE and other arenas, the earth line can beef you up considerably and keep you alive. You might find that dervishes have a good edge in standard PvE considering that they can stay in avatar form 24/7 with eternal aura. Unfortunately, pick up groups for end game content delegates dervishes mostly to tank with obsidian flesh I believe.

horseradish · Jan 21, 2008, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Avatars.

Oh, and...what they said...

Sirius-NZ · Jan 21, 2008, 08:41 PM // 20:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syntonic

Actually, warriors can cause weakness in the hammer line I believe.

This is correct; in fact I'm pretty sure hammer skills have better methods for causing weakness than Dervishes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyro maniac

also don't rely too much on enchantments
Heart of Fury and maybe Mystic Vigor is ok, but nothing else. Use some attacki skills instead (or like alex said rush/flail/etc) The prot monks will fuel your energy =)

Don't forget Aura of Holy Might. That's the other particularly important one. Some people use ... I think Watchful Intervention in PvP, but it is by no means essential.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syntonic

Unfortunately, pick up groups for end game content delegates dervishes mostly to tank with obsidian flesh I believe.

Solution - don't join pick-up groups - they don't usually know what they're doing anyway...

Mexay · Jan 22, 2008, 12:53 AM // 00:53

As already said they have a massive damage, the scythe is at max damage has the highest of all weapons, plus a dervish can hit upto 3 foes at once. Also no other profession can use Avatars properly (because Mysticism is the Primary Attribute and can't be used on any other profession). A dervish can also use can use Melee attacks from other professions.

A dervish also has the ability to take out a fairly large group of enemies in a small amount of time (providing the user of the dervish knows exactly what they are doing and they have 1 or 2 monks in there party to heal them).

My main character is a Dervish, I know how to use it fairly well. I only have 2 major issues with the Dervish profession. The first 1 being that the Dervish profession has a very low energy amount, this can be extremely bad in a few situations. The second being that Dervishes don't have terribly good self healing skills unless the person using the Dervish loves using enchantments (I am not the kind of person that enjoys using enchantments, I find them to do a extremely large waste of the very small amount of energy that I have).

If your going to be a dervish my suggestion is with you scythe you should have +30HP on it and Zealous, also +5 energy could be helpful, max damage req 9 is a must (a green with these stats is a Mhed's Vow, I use this scythe).

Also you will need to have at least 1 of your monk heroes with a good build on it (check the Heroes section of the forums). I'll give you my build and stats (please nobody tell me that I should change this or that I shouldn't use that ect. This build works for me).

My Build & Stats:
Dervish/Warrior
12 Tactics
13 Scythe Mastery
3 Mysticism
620 Health
39 Energy
Healing Signet
Ursan Blessing (I'm Rank 3 of Norn)
Zealous Sweep
Pious Assualt
Wearying Strike
Victorious Sweep
Soldier's Strike
Brawling Headbutt

Bowstring Badass · Jan 23, 2008, 02:15 AM // 02:15

No one said stay away from [skill]avatar of balthazar[/skill]?

Whats wrong with you Alex? lol
You are usually the 1st one to say this.

~ Dan ~ · Jan 23, 2008, 12:42 PM // 12:42

OP, stay away from [skill]Avatar Of Balthazar[/skill]